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    Greg and Beth

    the political and personal musings of two
    mountaineers living in west-central Florida
     
    Blow Dart Bandits Comment
    Gregory Morris, 11/21/08 11:25:45 pm
    I don't know if a judge and jury would agree with me, but I consider blow darts to be lethal weapons, and were I to be attacked by some punk teenagers with blow guns, you can guarantee they'll have bigger concerns than jail time.

    The police have this to say:
    They're not trying to cause real injury to someone...
    Uh huh. I don't even let my doctor come near me with needles that big.
    [Comments are closed after a month.]
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    name, 11/22/08 5:08:20 pm
    Maybe someone should shoot one of those into a cop's eyes or testicles and see if he changes his opinion.
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    OrangeNeckInNY, 11/22/08 8:52:19 pm
    Blow (dart) guns are illegal here in NY. Tip the darts with poison and they'll be lethal.
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    Divemedic, 11/24/08 6:00:34 am
    I think the law is clearly on your side. The law says

    "He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony"

    What helps you there is the "great bodily harm"

    even the cop in the article said

    "They're not trying to cause real injury to someone, but obviously it creates a fear issue because they don't know what is at the end of the dart. You could strike someone in the eye and could cause a very serious injury."
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    Gregory Morris, 11/24/08 7:52:09 am
    Technically, the law creates a justification for use of deadly force when you are using it stopping a violent felony. That doesn't mean the law will actually be applied that way by a jury, however.

    The law uses the "reasonable man" test, which is still a tough thing to deal with in court. If you shoot a teenager with a blow gun, even if you have a dart stuck in your face when you do it, you will probably be arrested. That's just how things work.

    The only time self-defense shooting won't result in an arrest is when it is so obvious that the police can make the decision not to arrest. For instance, you are standing over the dead body of a armed thug in your living room and there is clear evidence that he had just kicked the door in. When there is any question at all, assume that the police will arrest you and the DA will decide whether or not to charge you.

    The office of the DA is necessarily politically motivated. If you just shot a teenager, you can bet there will be political reasons to press charges.

    However, this applies in all situations, regardless of whether it was "just a blow dart". The same exact situation could arise if some kid starts throwing large rocks at you. Either the blow dart or the rocks can technically be "lethal" (so can a fist, or even a jar of bees, if you want to go that far.) You are allowed to legally meet force with proportional force, up to and including deadly force. However, you'd have to successfully argue that a reasonable man would find a blow dart to be lethal force, since use of a firearm is ALWAYS considered lethal force by the law.

    That being said, I'm not one to take chances when it comes to protecting myself and my family.
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    Divemedic, 11/25/08 10:34:21 am
    I understand what the law is, and your case would hinge on whether or not a blow gun is considered a deadly weapon- but that is more properly a question for a judge, not a jury, at least as far as the law is concerned.

    I would also point out that very, very few justified shootings are as clear cut as the one you describe. There are always inconsistencies.
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    Gregory Morris, 11/25/08 12:51:27 pm
    "that is more properly a question for a judge"
    I disagree. There is no statute defining whether or not a blow gun dart is a lethal weapon, or even one that can be assumed to cause serious injury. I believe guns are the only objects that, when used, are statutorily "lethal" no matter what. I don't think blow guns are automatically considered deadly weapons, even though they clearly can be.

    Florida's self-defense law (statutes and cases) requires 3 things to be present: intent, ability, and jeopardy. The assailant must intend to cause you harm, have the ability to do so, and it must represent an immediate threat. Any two of those by themselves are not grounds for the legal use of lethal self defense.

    I think it is clear you can argue that both intent and jeopardy can be fulfilled by a punk teenager preparing to blow a dart at you. However, ability is the tough one. If a gun is pointed at you, there is no doubt the assailant can cause you serious harm. Same for a knife or other obviously deadly weapons. However, if you are a fit, 250lb football player and a 90lb teenager comes at you with his fist, there is no ability for him to cause you serious injury (no matter how much he wants to), and thus lethal force is a no-no. Reverse that, and say you are a 90lb granny about to be pummeled by a mad 250lb football player, and the "ability" to cause serious injury exists, thus permitting you to use proportion force.

    Back to the "reasonable man" question, in court the jury will be asked, "Would a reasonable man assume that a blow gun dart has the ability to cause serious injury?" I don't think a judge in a jury-heard case can answer that question as a matter of law.
    Re: Blow Dart Bandits
    chris, 11/25/08 10:12:17 pm
    Ive personally gotten those darts to stick 1/8th of an inch into steel... they can easily be lethal.
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